Tresure Chest Spoiler !!!!!!

[xelemental]

Golden Axe of Legacy is melee uber, but it's rare currently.
However, staff is planning to rerelease it(it was even in newsletter(,maybe?Don't remember)).

Melee weapons are cheap and come close to most ubers, and I'm not sure, but I'd say that they may outdamage ubers.

[Shadow]

nightmare armour sucks on most vids on youtube it hits like 20-30 ea hit 20 x 4 = 80 / 30 x 4 = 120 80- 120 ? but defence are good and i get by the way i can hit 170 easly with big 100k and undead giant

[xelemental]

How does this relate to the topic?
Nemesis set attack at level 90 is 400%/250%/400% +20/+20/+10/+10 BTH, which makes it at 200 offensive stat with 8-28 +10 BTH weapon into 32-150, BTH values will be +43/+33 out of what 100 random and +13 BTH come from stat.On average turn, it will do with such weapon, assuming all hits connect, 100% resistance and no special, 91 damage.Weapon trigger, BTH, oppnent's blocking, damage, special, orbs, trigger shields, armor's affinity, opponent resistances and immunity all change that.

[Drago Goldenwing]

xelemental said:

I see.....
I´ve always though about this as already good damage.
EIK- Freeze effect, Freeze/burn can outdamage NMM.Don't require a set and has a similar standalone effect as Reignbringer.Ice Katana can freeze, too.
For Reign, most damage trigger weapons avilable are melee(Carnax, Darklaw, Dragonblade,etc....)
for darkness, then Vampire blades are draining(and I'm quite sure only FBB was magic), and generally there's massive damage blades for melee.
Paralyze - you can get either Energy Claws, which has paralyze effect.And for damage, there are, as I already said, the BB and Katana.....Both for relatively cheap prize.

But it's true, I can't remember a godly recent Melee Light weapon other than Tiki Masher.
Either way, it's true that melee lack at (percentile) light draining.

BTW, was it really four years?I think I saw Golden Plate many times in shops, when I was at lower levels, and I don't really belive it was so far in the past.
But time flies fast, oh well.....

EIK is Z-Token. IK is low-level and low-damage. Nightmare and Asgard are neither. Full Nightmare makes you very hard to take down and full Asgard is just built to kick arse and not even BOTHER taking names. And your logic is faulty since there's nothing preventing someone in full Nightmare from casting a Fire spell when the set effect freezes the mob.

And as for Reign, triggering against Ice monsters isn't the Reign effect. The Reign effect is that if all four hits of the special connect (400% damage, total,) then a fifth hit of 400% B/R is added. It's a hugely powerful special. Besides, trigger items only trigger on certain mobs. 90% of trigger items are useless for anything but farming specific mobs - which, anymore, is all Darklaw/Carnax/Dragonblade are used for.

And again, draining isn't the Shadow set effect. If all the hits of the special connect, a new hit is added to the end of the chain that reduces the mob's defense by 4 each.

Energy Claws were weak. There's an 18% chance of having a 50% chance. Granted it is for two rounds, however the damage output they offer is pretty poor. Asgard does not have this drawback and is high-damaging on top of it.

The flaw in your logic here xelemental, is that you're breaking weapons down into two groups: Weapons that are weak but have effects, and weapons that are purely damage.
Set effects make set weapons both at once. There are no drawbacks or tradeoffs like there are with lesser weapons and that's why they're so USEFUL. That's the very REASON there should have been a Melee Uber set made available a long time ago..

[Faye]

Drago, you forget Rage Breaker.

[xelemental]

I talked about weapons triggers themselves, not Full set specials.Trigger aganist Ice/Fire monsters are Reignbringers/Ice Katanas effects.
Also, I based my words on a comparsion of NMS Freeze-burn VS EIK Freeze burn, and EIK and MIK Freeze-burn outdamaged it even at 200 END and stuff....
I need to check is the fifth hit really that much
*checks*
Seems to be true.But keep in mind, it requires you to be in Reign Plate aganist an opponent who is weak to Fire, which means it probaly will attack one of the 90% elements.
And it still is true that most weapons with damage trigger, which are usually fairly good, like 8-33+ are melee.

It's true that Shadow Set effect of nerfing is unique.No other weapon in game mimics that, and also, it requires you to wear shadow aganist opponent probaly weak to darkness
*coughbringercoughcoughlightcough*
Besides, Shadow is not totally off from Melee.

High level Melee damage blades outdamage ubers in general.This is a fact.

Sets also are one element.Which Reignbringer, it's really useful aganist Ice enemies by boosting your defenses, say.But putting full Reign set on isn't very favorable.
Same for Shadow aganist Ligh enemies.
Asgardian is epic, with crazy costs and only 3% higher chance for 1 turn-paralyzis.Same chance for 2 turn paralyzis.

Also, melee got recently two standalone ubers: Tsunami Edge, and Ragebreaker, with both their own effects.And some strong fire weapon or hatchet or ? is coming.

My point is that Mage don't have any high damage power outside of the ubers.Most of Ranger's equipment is rather pricy, too.
Melee does have high damage with and without ubers.No high costs.However, everything mages use is uber.Uberspells, uberweapons, at the level whenever you may have barely money for 1-2 plates.

Also:Energy Claws is bad at higher levels, not at which it becomes avilable, 7-27 weapon.

True, mage/ranger may look more powerful.But that's without accounting the heaps of gold it requires.Have you seen any LV40 walk around with Z-token Ice Katana without actually buying tokens for it?
I assume not.

[Drago Goldenwing]

>_> You're not always going to be equipping a full set just because the mob you're fighting is weak to the weapon element. I'd rather use NMS and the freeze effect against a mob with Ice 110 than I would a wind weapon against a mob with Wind 120. You're thinking too narrowly about the possible applications. You don't have to have the highest elemental advantage or the weapon trigger to take advantage of the set effect.

Melee does the highest damage on regular attacks but we still have nothing on the damage output of mages. THAT part isn't what makes me say the game is severely imbalanced, the imbalanced part is that the Mages have the same HP and Defenses as Warrior builds while still maintaining a drastically higher damage output. Set effects help to alleviate this by giving the person making regular attacks a different type of advantage in battle - the problem is that all the set effects are for Mages and Rangers! And THAT is severely imbalanced considering they already have insane damage output. So they have insane damage output, and set effects to give them an advantage over Warrior builds in regular attacking as well.
Mages have the best of everything in everyway. Warriors have weapons that MIGHT be higher average damage.

And don't talk to me about Mage builds being very expensive. The last I checked, the only thing the Uberspells didn't have was an uber price, and Wizard/Divine Magic is a Class armor and inexpensive.

[Ithious]

I was thinking about this earlier too. If warriors want the best of the best for their class they need uber sets and uber stand alone weapons. Those cost a lot of money. A lvl 80 mage can do more dmg than, say, a lvl 95 warrior with all the ubers simply due to the fact that uber spells cost about 30,000 gold and the only other thing you need to do major dmg is wizard robes which cost what? 5,000 gold? If you say warriors have beserker class well, that is still different than just DM + uberspell spamming. For beserker class to do its true damage you need to charge up the class ability and wait until you have low health. Even then you only get a certain amount of hits before you have to charge it up again. A mage can just drink mana potions to continue spell spamming.

[Drago Goldenwing]

Or use that other Wizard ability that returns a flat percentage of their MP and not risk drinking a potion and not getting enough because of the randomness of it.
Which is another thing that bothers me. 200 End Warriors have a crapload of HP and no way to restore it. They only have enough mana for a single Heal Wounds, and at higher levels most monster do equivalent or more DPT to the amount of HP recovered by a Potion.

[xelemental]

drago said:

>_> You're not always going to be equipping a full set just because the mob you're fighting is weak to the weapon element.

Exatly my point. Warrior blades don't need a set of equipment to get their effects.Nor full sets to get damage.And full sets cost, guess what, 1.5Mil-1.55Mil.And just not one, but every last one of them.
And Nemesis is the only one what doesn't have horribly defenses aganist opponent attacks.

Wizard Robes defenses suck and in case of maxed stats, many times double cast outdamage DM.Now, LR, Guardian Robes, HP factor and stuff outbalance it even more.That's from comparsion, from what I assume that DM doesn't double stat damage.

I never said anything about uberspells, which, I agree, overpower mages but without them, it would again be warrior era.They're integral part of the game.

This is getting off so let's stop this now.

I first said that Warriors have already Energy covered.Mages have their stuff, too.But rangers have nothing for such damage
That's why rangers needed an energy uber more than mages or warriors.Giving energy uber to warriors would've further imbalanced the game.

This was the issue, not how many ubers have warriors got.

And yes, I occasionally run out of mana, even with 1600.

By the way, 7 uberspells+Lighting Rod= 26800=Lesser Uber.And these are must haves for mages practically, in addition to weapons.And before them aren't anything that good.

Your point is right,Drago, and my point is right.
They never contrasted each other to begin with.

[Faye]

THink of the situation when you have no more MP, and you're out of potions...The only thing mages can survive on is normal attacks or mana morph. When using normal attakcks with magic weapons, mages cannot do as much damage as the warriors/rangers can DUE TO IRONTHORN!!!!! Why do you think IronThorn was put in there for?!?!?! Even if your testings prove it's not significant, Drago, the Aq staffs have programmed it to do more damage! Your testing progress may not be right. You can get strong attacks w/o IronThorn and you get weak attacks with IronThorn.

In Example: I have 200 INT, that's +25 to random.

I attack with Nightmare mace [8-55(30+25)] w/o using IronThorn, and my attacks fall into the 50s categories due to sheer luck.

I attack with Nightmare Mace(8-55) with IronThorn, making it 12-83(i rounded), and my attacks fall into the 12-30 categories out of sheer...unluckiness!

So as you can see, your progress of testing may not be right, even though it's scientific. There will be these variables you can not controll.

Mana morph:

This takes away 10% health(assuming i have no more potions) and gives 20%. Naturally, this method can be used to replenish your HP/MP near full. Just mana morph with HP, heal wounds, repeat. For this to work, your INT has to be equal to or higher than your END. Wizard/Pyromancer's robe are pretty weak armor and no one should risk it wearing them against Uberific monsters.

Otherwise, if you think this is still unfair, think of MapleStory, think of how a level 40 warriors can outdamage a level 60 bandit using single attack.

[Ithious]

Wizard Robes really are not that bad of an armor. The defenses are decent (Magic defense is 45!) and the elemental resistances are not bad either. If you couple WR with NMS you get some good defenses and elemental resistances (mostly 75%). I also heard somewhere they they increase your dodging ability but it doesn't say that in the AQ or UAQ encyclopedia.

We are talking about AQ here so I really don't see the point in bring in MapleStory.

[xelemental]

Yeah, but only Magic defense.

And if 75% with a shield is good, nice for you.Sadly, for most monsters you'd rather have less.
Without any ubers/rares, you can get your elemental defenses 50 or less on average, even 25% atleast on one case.

Nemu, for Warriors to get back to mages, at long guests like reign and shadow, full heals need to be reduced from 20 to 16, I think that was it.Before Ironthorn, though.

Let's run some numbers......
Reign Plate damage 470/350/400.
with Ironthorn 940/700/800
With 200 STR and 8-30 melee weapon, 75.2-429.2(random+base, I accounted stats into IT bonus), averaging 252,2.
Now, while it outdamages uberspell, the BTH for the four hits of attack would be about 31%-38% on each hit without taking DEX into consideration.On median gold uberspell, the damage would be lower by 27.2 points, though BTH would be 33%-43% on each hit without accounting DEX, aka higher by 2-5 points(I don't expect any mage to use Guardian Robes when seriously fighting, so no).

Hmm.Actually, that means that with Ironthorn, warriors actually don't suck as they give up their reliance for MP and quite a bit of BTH for constant damage output.There are fair number of melee blades that are over the power of 8-30, but I'm not sure to say that about every element.
However, if it doesn't give stats, then maximum damage reduces by 100, average by 50, and even so, it may not outdamage the spells, but it has more constantcy, providing you don't run out of HP due your defenses in most elements.

[Faye]

Life's not fair...

[xelemental]

Yeah, but other than that there isn't nothing much we know about it.
Be happy to know that.And more happy if you're not on the worst side(even read the news?).