Warrior Boost

[Ithious]

This is for you Drago:

"Hi everyone! There's a lot going on in AQ design, with the Devourer Saga kicking into high gear and all of those upcoming classes you've already heard about. (Check out Issue #2 of the Zardian if you missed them.) We hear that some of you warriors are feeling a little neglected compared to mages, though. Well, Berserker's coming up, you've all had a chance to play with Tsunami Edge, and Chii has hinted in the past at a few other uber melee weapons to sate your bloodlust. Here's a little preview of that new gear coming soon to an armory near you.

First up, we have a mean, massive hammer, which can devour your opponent's spirit to restore your own body. Those who wield it tend to get angrier than usual, their knuckles just a little bit whiter and grip just a little bit tighter. Not much more is known about this vicious weapon, but rest assured that it can mean only pain for your enemies.

Next, somebody trapped a tiny little portal to the Fire Lord's realm inside a weapon to harness its power. Now, to say it gets a little warm there might be like saying Zorbak likes punting Twilly just a bit. Who can blame him, really?--but I digress. A weapon built to channel that planar power would get hot enough to melt your foe, whether it was made of plain old flesh or the coldest elemental ice...and if it got melted enough, you might even be able to refreeze it yourself to dispatch at your leisure.

Between these weapons and some upcoming classes - both ones you know of and a few you don't - you warriors will have a few new tricks for your repertoires. "

~Quote from Westwind in AQ forums

Link: forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=10649128

[Faye]

Darn...

[Black Seraphim Zero]

^ Wow.

The Fire weapon makes me want to change my build, I've been waiting for forever for one that I can afford. ReignBringer is too expensive... And FFU doesn't really agree with me.

[~Infini~]

Hybrids FTW! this helps me also.

[Drago Goldenwing]

My issue hasn't been equipment for a long time, and it isn't something new weapons can fix. The imbalancing of the game has to do with how stats affect everyone the same yet Mages get nuke buttons.

[Faye]

Lol...I think so too. But come to think of it. Whenever we get rewards, the Melee reward always stand above the magical one by 1 base and 1 random. If that didn't please you, they should boost Berserker class and release a powerful Melee only armor?

[Drago Goldenwing]

When they release melee weapons that hit as hard as the uber spells then I'll say that they can balance the issues with AQ by releasing new equipment.

You're hanging up on equipment. This is not an equipment issue. I have not complained about equips for a long time, my problem lies in the fundamentals of the stat system AQ uses.

Look at it like this. In all other games, mages have OMFGOVERKILL spells. They do HUGE damage and are an essential part of dealing damage in any party.
But at the same time, having a Hiroshima button is balanced by making the mage have very low defense and HP. This means they DEAL nuclear level damage, but they can't take a hit.

In AQ, because there's no differentiation between the core builds, the mage has just as much HP and defense as warriors. This leads to a MASSIVE overbalancing towards Mages because with the uber spells, they are not only capable of considerably outdamaging melee builds but are capable of TAKING JUST AS MUCH DAMAGE.

Warrior: Str 200/Dex 200/End 200/Luk 50
Max HP: 2250
Max MP: 750
Melee BTH: +28
Magic BTH: +15
Ranged BTH: +28
Melee Damage: +25
Magic Damage: +0
Ranged Damage: +25
Chance to Block: 23%

So on a single attack, with no armor modifiers, the Warrior would deal out 10-55 a turn at 38 BTH.

Ranger: Str 200/Dex 200/End 200/Luk 50
Max HP: 2250
Max MP: 750
Melee BTH: +28
Magic BTH: +15
Ranged BTH: +28
Melee Damage: +25
Magic Damage: +0
Ranged Damage: +25
Chance to Block: 23%

So on a single attack, with no armor modifiers, the Ranger would deal out 10-55 a turn at 38 BTH.

Mage: Dex 200/Int 200/End 200/Luk 50
Max HP: 2250
Max MP: 2250
Melee BTH: +15
Magic BTH: +28
Ranged BTH: +28
Melee Damage: +0
Magic Damage: +25
Ranged Damage: +13
Chance to Block: 23%

So on a single usage of Earth Fury, the Mage would deal out 10-55, 10-55, 10-55, 10-55, 15-80, 15-80, at +58 BTH on the first four hits, and +48 BTH on the last two.

Do you see the problem here? There is NO REASON AT ALL to be a Warrior, because Mages so obviously outstrip warriors on damage and take JUST AS MUCH DAMAGE and have JUST AS MUCH DEFENSE.

Even granted that the Warrior or Ranger is using Reign Plate, that leaves them attacking for 47-210 at 38 BTH a turn. That still leaves the Divine Magic user doing over three times the maximum damage that the Warrior and Ranger builds are capable of, and soaking damage with the same amount of HP as the Warrior or Ranger.

There is no room for competition here. It is blatantly impossible for Warriors and Rangers to even come close to being able to deal a third of that kind of damage. And yet at the same time there is no draw for people to play Warriors and Rangers because Mages are just as capable of withstanding damage as the melee builds.
In short, choosing to play as anything other than a Mage build is intentionally crippling your character from the beginning. You will never be as effective in battle as a Mage build, and so more and more people are making their mains Mages. This in turn causes the game to cater to Mage builds, which even further ostracizes and makes obsolete the other builds.
An example of this was the decision to not release an 'Uber set' that uses a melee weapon. Currently the only melee uber has been the Golden set, which went rare long ago.
There are currently three such sets in game - Two have Magic weapons and one has Ranged.
Warriors that weren't already in-game and incredibly rich years ago are left without even so much as a set effect such as freezing, enhanced damage or monster nerfs to help them deal damage, things that mages can now do for no cost at all thanks to the set bonuses.

[scgr]

I really agree with you, because. well, i have been getting the heir now (hehe.. ) but, when i suddently meet a guy that deals quite much much dmg, i have to switch and use mage spells, because i really cant deal enough dmg in so little time (thats the only reason i have a little int to)

[Faye]

That's pretty messed up but now with the Ironthorn shield doesn't it boost Warriors significantly? Mages are overpowered in spells because they're made to cast spells. Get 200 STR and you'll see the difference Drago.

[Drago Goldenwing]

Nemu, I have seen no evidence since I've gotten the IronThorn that it boosts damage by enough to be called 'signifigant'.

And if you'll look at the stats above, I did use a Warrior at 200 Str, 200 Dex, 200 End and 50 Luk in my examples. Assuming the warrior has a 10-30 weapon with +10 BTH, he deals 10-55 a turn on a single attack with no other modifiers.
Assuming the mage is at 200 Int, 200 Dex, 200 End and 50 Luk, they hit for 10-55 x4, 15-80 x2 on a single casting of Earth Fury (Or 70-380.) This is without any other modifiers.

With Reign Plate, the warrior and ranger deal out 47-210 a turn, with the above-described nameless weapon. With IronThorn presumably doubling melee output, that's... 94-420 a turn.

With Divine Magic (I am likely wrong on the math, as I don't know if Divine Magic takes stat bonuses to damage into account before or after it multiplies the damage of the spell,) the mage will deal out 174-724 total.

So, over two turns, the mage will deal 174-724, the warrior or ranger with IronThorn will deal 188-840. But you see, that last number is presumable. I have yet to see IronThorn providing a signifigant, regular increase to my DPT and I do not think it works at advertised.

And for the record, I'm not going pure warrior. I'm also one of the only people on this board to support using Guests AND pets to maximise DPT over DPS, and as a result I'm hybridizing to be able to more effectively use them.
Knock it all you want, but until you have Krenos hitting for 60+ a turn and Nerfkitten hitting for 70+ after three nerfs and THEN tell me it's not worth it because it 'slows down your own turn so you deal less damage in the LONG RUN', you don't have any right to comment.

[Faye]

Well what happens when you have no more MP? Mages are way weaker w/o MP. They are more powerful with MP but Warriors can survive in that condition due to IronThorn. W/o MP, mages can only deal damage through magic weapon.

[Drago Goldenwing]

Without MP mages equip the RP + IT and deal the same damage as Warriors.

[Faye]

IT increases more damage for Ranged and Melee and Warriors get an extra 50%

[Drago Goldenwing]

It's a x2 multiplier versus a 1.5 multiplier Nemu, you're splitting hairs. The point is that Mages are, in non-spell combat, just as effective as Warriors, which is part of the problem with the way stats affect everyone equally. Mages get Nagasaki, we get hand grenades. Sure they both go BOOM, but hand-grenades didn't end World War II.

[Faye]

...With IronThorn Warriors outdamage mages in non-spell combat.